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  • General Question!

     gregct updated 1 year, 7 months ago 1 Member · 12 Posts
  • guest

    Member
    July 13, 2018 at 12:00 am

    Hey guys! (fixbear ectofix )  

     

    Here I am with a question, so don’t go getting all huffy since I don’t have model or serial.

     

     

    Someone contacted me for a Robert Shaw 780-715/708-715U (Ignition Control non-lockout). Needed it today. In the background, I can here someone stating there is a generic part resembling this one he has used before. That’s just lead up folks

     

     

    Basic questions here.

    1. Is there an alternate part number this specific Robert Shaw part <alternate vendor maybe>?

                                                                     (keep in mind, in most descriptions it already states universal *face palm*)

    2. Generally speaking, is this a widely used brand? (basically, different appliances, models, manufacturers)

     (I know a lot of times, regardless of what they are repairing the first thing they go for is the “generic” Robert Shaw Parts)

     

     

    P.S. Thanks guys

     

    P.P.S. HAPPY FRIDAY

  • partsgirl

    Member
    July 13, 2018 at 4:49 pm

    One last thing!

     

          Seems a lot of these replacement modules are a Fenwal…. just something I noticed!

  • Olivero

    Member
    July 13, 2018 at 5:03 pm

    Confusing questions but I’ll try to answer.

     

    Robertshaw is a major distributor, they make lots of gas valves, that’s where I see their name mostly.

     

    If you want an equivelant or perhaps the part number changed, in most cases you can call the manufacturer of the part and they will tell you the alternate one. I don’t see ignition modules being “generic” in the kitchen world, maybe for furnaces or something in the HVAC world there might be “generic” replacements or “fit all” type IM but in the kitchen world, its generally proprietary from what I’ve experienced.

     

    so what exactly are you trying to solve here? You need the part but no one has it or you can’t find it and so you want an equivalent or what’s the deal?

  • eritech1

    Member
    July 13, 2018 at 6:23 pm

    Here is a pic of the Honeywell s8610u manuel and it seems like this is compatible with the module ur looking for. 780-715.

    Wich I always keep in my truck because it does work for a lot applications.

    but I would suggest having the tech do his own research and have him check with his company policies, because when it comes to gas appliances there are a lot of reliability’s, if the tech puts in a module with out setting it right some thing could go wrong.

  • fixbear

    Member
    July 13, 2018 at 7:23 pm

    Because of the AGA and UL approvals and testing,  The cost of getting a ignition safety approved is quite high and lengthy.   And in food service industry, is where most incidents seem to occur.  Therefore the manufacturers have farmed out the gas control to Fenwal and Ranco.  Honeywell has kind of withdrawn from food service. You mentioned Non-lockout.  Not something for today’s rules in any gas appliance.  And even worst, today’s high tech burners in some units are very sensitive to calibration and can self destruct is wrong.  No lockout is downright dangerous.  If your looking for a no lockout, it means someone doesn’t know how to work n the combustion system.

     

    Now let’s talk about the liability.  Having lost a 7 mill lawsuit from 1982, Don’t even think about a non OEM gas control unless the mfg. agrees.  It’s one thing to help a customer on a Friday to get threw the weekend till you can get the right one,  but know that you are on the hook for it. And with gas, it can be A big liability.  I have in the past evaluated a control to see if it is the same as the original spec wise. And used non original. but it should be equal or better. And you have to have the spec’s for each application to make that decision.  There is no one size fit’s all. Honeywell has tried to do that in the HVAC industry because heating trucks have forever carried universal items.  But that does not work in food service.

  • partsgirl

    Member
    July 14, 2018 at 7:20 am

    Thanks guys! Even though I realize my questions rather went in circles I appreciate all the information.

     

    It wasn’t any of my techs who needed the control. Plus I know this tech is amazing at what he does and knows using anything other than OEM was a bad idea, it’s why I said it was lead up. Since I didn’t hear back from anyone, I assume he located the needed control and didn’t need me to order it (in emergency situations, we can usually get something delivered on weekends if needed)

     

    By the way, it was a pizza oven now that I think about it. I wasn’t asked to locate an alternate for them I just was curious as I had never seen that specific valve come through for an appliance and I’m an extra kinda person sometimes. Plus, I heard that “in the background” conversation and for my sanity wanted details about it.

     

    Just seemed odd, especially being that even in residential repairs using anything other than the OEM part is dangerous. Like I said, 11 years there and still getting use to the commercial side. 

  • fixbear

    Member
    July 14, 2018 at 9:16 am

    Back when partially informed environmental groups created the mercury scare, (There is no replacement equal to or as good as) and got the EPA to try removing it from the main stream we saw a big jump in hydraulic gas valves and shortage.  Quite a few smaller  kitchen repair shops send them out for rebuild.  Some manufacturers have designed and provide a conversion, like Bloggett. But others feel you should just buy a new one. ITW companies are that way  Real problem units are like master chef hydraulic variable burner ovens. There is no getting any replacement for them  Somehow they wind up in service organizations, and being doctored to run.  They all have someone who thinks they know how to fix them. Usually they worked in the heating industry and have no idea how complicated the commercial cooking equipment can be. 

     

    Today everything is going to electronic control because it is cheaper and can do so much more.  Like variable firing rates, direct ignition, and all kinds of safety monitoring.  Means that burner design can be less forgiving to firing error.  Problem is that IC’s and semiconductors are obsolete as soon as they go out the door.  There are Russian companies that do nothing but buy up all older chips to resell at very high prices. I once had a $10,000 board that got miss-wired by the millwright/mechanic moving the machine. First chip was $28.00. Last one they had.   Cooked it a second time trying to find the problem, and also burned up some traces on the board.  This one cost me $454.00 from the Russians. They had bought all still in existence.  Ran into a similar thing with a power board voltage regulator. Talked to the manufacturer and found out it was no longer made, but there was still 6 in inventory in a Switzerland electronics house because it was also used on there locomotives.  Had to find someone that could speak German get that one. Bench repairs can be very profitable. A rebuild board from the mfg. was $14,000.00 exchange. They were very happy with my $1500.00 and a $70.00 part. 

  • partsgirl

    Member
    July 20, 2018 at 1:37 pm

    So remember the whole “UNIVERSAL” control board thing….. Just happened across this, figured it’d be a good thing to share  

     

  • Olivero

    Member
    July 20, 2018 at 1:41 pm

    I wouldn’t trust that.

     

    Like, ever.

  • partsgirl

    Member
    July 20, 2018 at 2:10 pm

    I agree but I had to share it since it was what prompted my questions about RobertShaw

  • fixbear

    Member
    July 20, 2018 at 9:37 pm

    The HVAC division and Food Service division is totally different.  As I mentioned earlier, Food Service is a totally different animal.  They are commercial machines that operate under difficult conditions and have to be very precise.  Especially Combi-Ovens.  Most of the better ones have there roots in Europe where efficiency is mandatory.

  • gregct

    Member
    July 26, 2018 at 8:46 am

    According to what I’ve found on that Robershaw series, its for a gas furnace burner, so if its in a piece of cooking equipment it would probably be in a large, possibly obsolete, baking oven that takes roll-in racks. Think towards the older Bakers Aid, Adamatic, Cutler and Revent and even some custom built units in older facilties.. Most used burners designed and produced for heating furnaces and were bought by the oven manufactures directly from the same  burner manufactures(think Rheem, Eclipse, etc) supplying the furnace manufactures and just installed as complete assemblies in the ovens. Robertshaw usually doesn’t distribute ‘cross-service’ to their suppliers, so your customer may need to go thru a heating furnace parts supplier to obtain that series control. 

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